There are a few things I generally try to avoid writing about on my blog, and politics is one of them. Part of it is due to the fact that I’m too busy to write regularly about such topical and quickly-evolving subjects, but mostly it’s because there are other bloggers out there who speak much more eloquently on the whole shebang than I ever could. However, as I do often have an opinion or two, I thought I’d put up some pictures and write a short bit about the ongoing red shirt protest in Bangkok and how I feel about the whole mess.
Now, I don’t hold a degree in political science (or even political creationism) and am often too-quickly swayed when I hear one side of an argument, and then sway back to the other side when I hear the opposing one. But I’m kind of conflicted about this whole thing.
The crowd grows.
On one hand, I’m a pussy pacifist and would just like to see everything settle down, for the red shirts to go back home, and everything to get back to how it was, chugging along in the closest form of democracy that Thailand is apparently able to handle. Despite the incredible good will and welcoming attitude I saw when I attended the red protest the other day, I hate that the red shirts can just walk into the capital city and shut things down if they’re unhappy, using crude language and cruder tactics to try and discredit a government that is not evil, and is trying its best to keep a lot of plates spinning. Why don’t they wait until an election? Isn’t that how democracy works?
Wonder if these guys ever met again? Say, a few weeks later. With guns.
On the other hand, there is clearly – blatantly – a double standard in Thailand, and the red shirts represent the socio-economic class of people, mostly poor and mostly from Northeast Thailand, that usually gets the short end of the stick. In their minds, they are doing the only thing they can to force a change. They’ve been beaten down for so long this is the only option left.
Smile!
I had a conversation with a friend today who has the annoying talent of intelligently analyzing everything from multiple angles. I said to him “This protest – and the one by the yellow shirts a few years ago
Epic.
My friend then said this doesn’t happen in Thailand, and he’s right. If, for example, your car is totaled and your back injured because some powerful army dude/actor/doctor/TV star is driving drunk, they’ll likely pay you a pittance to keep your mouth shut and go away. Still want to fight? How about a beating in a dark alley after a movie, how does that sound? That’s the way things work here, and without money, connections or saucy blackmail material, you know what you are? You’re a red shirt. If you want change, you have to fight for it.
The universal sign.
Of course, this isn’t to say that the red shirts are all good guys, or that the yellow shirts are all rich – as with anything, there is many blurring of lines going on. But, as much I hate the protests, as much as I hope the army doesn’t start shooting, as much as I think the red shirts spilling their blood is a disgusting waste of a precious resource, as much as I sympathize with their plight, as much as I want them to leave so I can get to work on time, and as much as I want them to succeed… I think this, or something like it, needs to happen if there is ever to be change. I’m just not sure they’re going about it the right way. Thoughts?
My FB posts:
Unlike the ’92 LA riots, Thailand 2010 doesnt really lend itself to widespread burnin’ and lootin’. What good is urban unrest without anarchical chaos and violence!? Thailand stands alone with its lethargic criminally poor and impoverished “degenerates” who take advantage in other urban centers that experiences crisis…, political or natural. Buddhism anyone?
all I’m saying is that the night before final exams in LA we didn’t know whether to study or run. In Bangkok its like a snow day whether things get ugly or not and we don’t have to go to work. I think there is an atmosphere of ambivalence rooted in “mai pen rai” and as Pat just randomly said, “everyone’s comfortable”/”sabai”.
Perhaps its a side effect of Thai ppls natural deference to those of higher class and an assumption that regardless of who is in charge things will be as they have, generally fine. But there has been a growing stratification of wealth in this country that isn’t being addressed, not that I have policy solutions, but I still ♥ BKK & Thailand
[…] Some Thoughts on the Red Shirts Greg at the GregtoDiffer.com blog lays down some of his thoughts of and photos from his last few days observing and documenting the main mass of the rally in […]
[…] Greg Jorgensen: Some Thoughts on the Red Shirts […]
Agree about pacifism & the double standard, but you completely overlooked how the current government came into power – no amount of spin can get away from the fact that this government is only in power because of a military & judicial coup.
The lead coalition partner, Abhisit’s (not so) Democrats, refused to participate in elections before the coup, and even after having things rigged in its favour and competitors removed, its still afraid to face the people in an election.
You also failed to look at the history of miltary coups in Thailand, where its always some military General or other deciding a group of ‘corrupt’ politicians need to be removed – the first act of those generals is always to change the constitution to exonerate themselves, and then they move on to enriching themselves and whichever network they are aligned with.
A push then comes for democracy from the people, sometimes elections are held and sometimes another coup occurs or even a ‘self coup’.
The people are never given the chance to remove governments – The old saying: ‘The rural mnasses elect the governments and the Bangkok elite removes them’ is a cycle being repeated endlessly.
Like it or not Thaksins TRT was the only government to win consecutive elections – it should have been left to the people to decide when they want to remove that government.
No lasting good will ever come from a military coup because two wrongs will never make a right.
I have tried not to go into the background of HOW its been possible for the masses to be continually disenfranchised, but if you or your readers are interested, they could start with books by Paul Handley & Federico Ferrara.
Your sho
Thanks for posting Hobby. As I mentioned, I’m not a political analyst and usually avoid writing about it because no matter what or how much you say, there’s always someone who will tell you you’re wrong, tell you you’re right, and tell you that you missed a bit; it’s a Pandora’s box that, frankly, I don’t have the time to deal with. I agree that the Democrats have not behaved to the high political ideals they claim to embody, but to my eye, no Thai politician has… possibly ever? (I’ve read the books you mentioned, as well, very good reads). We may as well discuss abortion, religion and the Oscars for all the consensus we’re likely to find.
As for the military coup question, well, that gets into a whole other debate that dwarfs the red shirt/yellow shirt debacle. Coups are rarely a good thing. From what I’ve seen, in Thailand, it doesn’t matter who is in charge – the army, the reds, the yellows, or any combination thereof – enriching yourself and your friends seems to be job #1, doing the job properly is job #2.
Trevor, I suggest you brush up on Thai history a bit. Things can get very violent very quickly in Thailand.
See October 1976 and May 1992.
“In Bangkok it’s like a snow day whether things get ugly or not” Hmm, perhaps at the moment, but if history teaches us any lessons, don’t for a second think that the “mai bpen rai” attitude carries over all the way to politics, and with the conservative “elite” willing to resort to slaughter to maintain order and (their) control.
[…] The aftermath of ‘blood protests’ in Bangkok this week (photo by Newley from Newley.com); me in the middle of a red shirt protest on Sunday (photo by Greg from Greg to Differ). […]
"without money, connections or saucy blackmail material, you know what you are? You’re a red shirt. If you want change, you have to fight for it… think this, or something like it, needs to happen if there is ever to be change. "
that’s a fine definition, Greg ! 🙂
about "not doing right way" – true. but then, consider that for LONG time they (mostly rural folks) had never even had the very idea (what to say – experience !) that they can express their opinions. previous uprisings of 73/76 and 92 were mostly of students and urban middle class, who are naturally more educated. these people though, till now, hardly ever thought it possible to voice their grievances and expect to be heard & taken into consideration !
so, yes, you’re right – "not doing right way". I also often feel very disappointed at the way they do it. but then I came to conclusion, that they simply DON’T know how else it could be done properly, in better way. thus, what they do is … copy PAD, who played large role at nullifying results of elections which enabled the government more or less (first time in the country’s history) show SOME care for them. so, they know no better – they were simply outraged by PAD, then by coup, then again by PAD, then by the "Democrat" gov installed by army & PAD.
so, yes, they COPY PAD, and at most – sort of try to out-best them, as kids. but of course, they lack PAD’s resources, base, support, and even education. say, how many peasants can afford to have a more or less decent PC, with good enough ADSL connection package – or even TIME to sit in front of it blogging, Tweeting, socializing at networks, commenting on endless youtube videos, debating on Forums, or even merely doing seemingly the most UNSOPHISTICATED (by net-savvy modern standards) trivial thing as reading BASIC news on-line?
just think about it ! or if it is hard to imagine – try to visit some village. no, even small town will do. like I visit occasionally my in-laws. can’t say they’re dirty poor – have house, some savings, piece of land, just enough income. but COMPUTER, internet ? no way. it is simply beyond means.
what to speak about some real farmers, living not from "paycheck to paycheck", as average worker in the West does – but … FROM DEBT TO DEBT ! LITERALLY !
(see here, just tip of the iceberg: "1,181,133 people with debts totalling Bt122.41 billion")
the funniest thing is: not only majority of expats have no any or very vague idea of those living conditions, but perhaps more than 90% of those very urban dwellers, who comprise may be 99% of yellow (and all other colors, except of red) shirts.
so, of course, red-shirts can never even match PAD in those very same tactics, methods and I would say ruthless effectiveness. and as I said, red-shirts simply can’t be even AS MUCH creative – what to speak better.
it would take a long time for them to better PAD. as well as … better standards of living (to be able to AFFORD all those things) ! but then, it comes back to the same original point of what and why they are fighting for …
sorry for a long comment. but here are my thoughts, as you asked 🙂
Interesting blog and comments.
And frankly an eye-opener, I guess as an expat working in the South I am more or less sympathetic to the yellows cos my frens are more anti-Thaksin, pro-Abhisit.
But having read about fellow expat’s point of view on the living conditions of the Isan people I can understand why this protest is so important to them, because it is a chance for their voice to be heard in a country ruled by the Bangkok elites.
But my concern would be that the majority of these down-to-earth red shirts are being played as pawns in this whole fiasco. Thaksin wants to come home and he is pulling all the strings to make that possible. The Red leaders, these same leaders enjoying their lives in plush hotels while the hard work is being done by the masses (who probably have no experience nor education in these matters), are asking the people to do these radical things, and with little or no education, these masses are easily brain-washed and swayed.
Look at the blood incident for example, you and I are aghast at the waste of resources and the health implications of this, but the Reds did it anyway because their leaders asked. The people giving the blood have no inkling on the possible repercussions on this.
I have a feeling that a lot of the Red Shirts went to rally together at this protest for a genuine goal of wanting their voice to be heard, but having been drawn into this political game by Thaksin and his cronies (who are planning who-knows-what next), they lost part of the vision and are being used as body counts. Yes, they are pro-Thaksin because they thinks he gives a hoot about them, but in reality, Thaksin was just using their numbers and their naivety to his advantage.
It might only be the end of this once Thaksin is permanently out of the picture and the cronies have no more money to do his dirty-work for him. Maybe for once then a PM genuinely concerned about the country can change lives again.
I hope some compromise suitable to both the Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts will be reach soon. This horrible violence needs to stop for stability and peace to return to Thailand.
If only more than 93 people could read about this.